134: Muscle Centric Medicine for Longevity and Brain Health | Dr. Gabrielle Lyon, DO

Louisa Nicola: 0:00

Gabrielle Welcome to the neuro experience podcast. It's been a long time coming, but I'm so excited to have you on board. Let's get right into it. Let's

Gabrielle: 0:07

talk about what it means when you refer to muscle being the organ of longevity. muscle is the largest organ in the body by weight. And it does so much more metabolically. And just for overall health than simply locomotion and exercise. It really is this endocrine organ and the organ of longevity.

Louisa Nicola: 0:32

So, how did you even like get started in this, let's talk about the journey of undergrad. I know you speak very highly of your mentor during undergrad and your postgraduate work, where did it all start?

Unknown: 0:45

It was really interesting. I just happened to be fortunate enough to be mentored by one of the world's leading protein experts. And his name is Dr. Donald layman. And I did my undergraduate at the University of Illinois in vitamin mineral metabolism. And at the time, it was one of the top three nutrition institutions in the world. And because of his mentorship, it really targeted and change my perspective and thinking especially as it relates to overall health and well being. And I've kept that relationship for the last two decades. It's it's really been essential and pivotal in my career and also in my capacity to help other people.

Louisa Nicola: 1:29

And that's so where are you at right now? So you went to med school and then you focused on geriatrics? Is that correct?

Unknown: 1:37

I went to medical school than I did, actually. And I think a lot of people don't know this. I did three years at the University of Louisville in psychiatry.

Louisa Nicola: 1:45

Oh, wow.

Unknown: 1:46

And then which actually allowed for a great framework of understanding of the human mind, and really the way in which people perceive challenges and just their perspective on their own health and wellness. Then I did three years of Family Medicine. After that, after I completed that I did post a postdoc at Washington University in St. Louis, and that was in Nutritional Sciences, obesity, medicine and geriatrics.

Louisa Nicola: 2:14

And so we're, I don't know if you you agree with this, but obviously, you've seen a huge shift over the last 10 years with people understanding protein, for example, people understanding longevity, I think even in the last five years, I would say not a lot of people really understood this centenarian perspective on life, you know, that with proper health, proper nutrition, you can, you know, have lifestyle interventions to mitigate the onset of certain diseases. But we, we don't tend to look at the muscle as an organ, we don't tend to think about how muscle plays out in the realm of chronic diseases, and you do a really good, you, you really are out there doing a lot of public education. I mean, you're out there doing a lot of podcasts just like we are now. And you're advocating for this link between longevity and muscle mass. And you also talk a lot about inflammation. So where do you think weight general population? Let's just start with just Gen pop people who are just out there just going to the gym, where are we going wrong? When it comes to muscle mass and understanding strength training?

Unknown: 3:30

This is a really great question. And I like how you point out the ageing perspective of muscle. It's interesting, because skeletal muscle is one of the tissues that has a and goes through a physiological change as we age. And there are multiple, there are multiple realms at which in which this happened. And one in particular is this physiological change, this sarcopenic change that happens, and that's a decrease in muscle mass and function and we see a decrease in strength. The importance of maintaining muscle, as it relates to longevity really begins in your 30s. There is this change this physiological nutrient sensing change that happens, we'll call to anabolic resistance. Essentially, it's the inefficiency of the body to use dietary proteins, that the sensing mechanism requires more of a stimulus. And oftentimes that stimulus can be resistance training, compounded with higher quality protein, essentially the amino acids and in particular, some of the branched chain amino acids, which we'll get to where I think that we go wrong, and this is a very important point is that we train haphazardly. If you think about the health perspective, people talk a lot about nutrition And then they make gross generalisations about training, oh, you should stay active. But what does that really mean for the ageing population, and by ageing, we're always ageing, and that that, arguably, is every day, particularly as our hormones shift. So whether that's in your 30s, or 40s, this hormone shift becomes essential to pay attention to as it relates to having very high quality targeted training, in particular resistance training. See,

Louisa Nicola: 5:36

the amount of like, dots out there? That is probably misleading, you probably hate hearing it. You know, there's a lot of women out there that suggest, oh, I better not do any strength training, because I'm going to, you know, I'm going to get bulky. And it's interesting that we still in, you know, 2021, we're still hearing that line, because it does take and you can correct me, if I'm wrong, it takes a lot of work strength training, hypertrophy training, to really get even one kilo or should I say two pounds of muscle mass for a female?

Unknown: 6:11

Absolutely, it's, it's interesting that it's still the the common perception. And oftentimes we know that perception is inaccurate. However, the more frequently you hear something, the more likely it is to become true in our minds. And it's, it's an interesting phenomenon. You're absolutely right, it, it takes quite a bit of conscious and directed focus to put down muscle. And you know, whether an individual is trained or untrained will determine the amount that they could put on. And it also takes quite a bit of discipline, as it relates to building muscle.

Louisa Nicola: 6:50

Yeah, I look, I had this problem. I was a triathlete. So I raced for Australia. And we know that triathletes are endurance athletes. And I always had this problem where I couldn't put muscle on, okay, but I was actually increasing my I was bigger than what I am now. And I was training 40 hours a week, I was, uh, let me tell you, I was a lot fitter. But when I say bigger, like my, with the amount of with the amount of swimming we did, I, my I just grew up the top with the amount of cycling we did, my legs just grew. But I didn't see a decrease in fat. And you speak a lot about why we should be focusing on building muscle instead of focusing on losing fat. And that's a huge, huge paradigm shift for a lot of I keep saying women, because I know that I hear and men too, who are trying to get lean, but we always hear I just want to focus on losing fat rather than just building muscle.

Unknown: 7:50

Absolutely. And that's been the failure of the fat focus paradigm for decades, is that simply we're focusing on the wrong tissue. There is this obsession with adiposity. And really, when you think about the issues that become problems later on in life, for example, metabolic syndrome, insulin resistance, these are not issues primarily of fat tissue. They don't begin there, they actually begin in the skeletal muscle, skeletal muscle is the initial site for insulin resistance. And the focus still remains on adiposity, which I believe is one reason why it becomes increasingly difficult to treat, because we're simply focusing on the wrong tissue.

Louisa Nicola: 8:35

Yeah, just on that when it comes to glucose and insulin, so I Were A CGM. And I noticed that I can dump I mean, this is you know, in it's a it's it's a taking a helicopter view of this. But the more muscle you have, the more glycogen you can dump in and therefore the the better resistance you're going to be. Is that correct?

Unknown: 9:00

Yes, when it comes to bad glucose? Yeah, absolutely. So skeletal muscle is one of the primary sites for disposal for glucose. And the, you know, when you think about glucose disposal, the more skeletal muscle mass you have, the more you have a place to dispose of it, you know, and another interesting aspect is that glucose overall carbohydrates really need to be thought of as an as a meal to meal threshold, which is different people always think about this concept of how many carbohydrates should I be eating in a 24 hour period. While that is relevant and important, because we do think about things in cycles. There's something to be said for meal distribution, as it relates to keeping body composition together and, and simply, anywhere between 25 and 40 grammes of carbohydrates per meal would essentially be a threshold.

Louisa Nicola: 9:54

I mean, look, it's very individualised. It's very dependent on, you know how much exercise you're having and what you're doing. On a daily basis, so I think what what strikes me when you when I first listened to you, so I listened to you on a podcast randomly as I was going for a long drive, and it caught my attention. And that's when I knew, okay, I need to meet this woman, you spoke about the amount of protein that we need to stimulate muscle protein synthesis. And then you said, it's not so much the protein that we need to look at, per se, but the amount of leucine in the serving and just for the audience, leucine is one of the three branched chain branched chain amino acids. It's an activator of the protein known as mTOR. And which then obviously induces muscle muscle protein synthesis via the ES six K. But the thing that I wanted to know is can we talk about leucine, and the importance of it, and how much we need per serving

Unknown: 10:56

have salutely leucine, as you pointed out is one of the branched chain amino acids. And it is essential meaning that it only comes from the diet, the body cannot make it on like the non essential amino acids. This means that when you think about protein, what you're really thinking about are the amino acids. Okay, we eat for amino acids, not protein is the amino acids that we need, in particular leucine. Why is leucine so important? Well, when the conversation turns to longevity and skeletal muscle, leucine is a potent stimulator of mTOR, which is mechanistic target of rapamycin, which is essentially a nutrient sensor and it's a growth promoter. And it is what is responsible for laying down skeletal muscle as it relates to muscle protein synthesis. Now, leucine alone will not lay down skeletal muscle you require all the amino acids but it is the same as putting a key in the car and turning the key. And leucine would be the key.

Louisa Nicola: 12:06

So are we getting that in the protein that we eat? And if we are is it should we be looking at let's just say chicken breast for example. And we want to have I don't know 200 we want to try and get 200 grammes of protein should we be looking at the loosing like content within that? That those grammes of protein

Unknown: 12:26

practically speaking, I think understanding the concept that high quality protein, animal based proteins are different than plant based proteins. When we think about the DA, it's the leucine amount is between two and three grammes per day, which is entirely too low. Right? That's the minimum amount that you would need for survivability. A more optimal number is eight to nine grammes of leucine per day. And what does that look like? It actually looks like two and a half grammes of leucine per meal. And I don't want to lose anyone here because typically, we don't pick up a burger and think, man, this has two and a half grammes of leucine. So a very easy way to navigate. That is to understand by ingesting a minimum of 30 grammes of high quality dietary protein, you will likely get that minimum leucine requirement to then stimulate mTOR. So there's a minimum and a more optimal number and a minimum number would say be 1.8 grammes of leucine and roughly, you know, to 1.8 to 2.5. And you're looking at a minimum of 30 grammes of high quality dietary protein. And people want to think about what that is.

Louisa Nicola: 13:46

So is there a timing aspect of this as well, we hear about the anabolic stage of when you're doing a let's just say we go out and we do a huge leg workout. Are we supposed to be I wouldn't say supposed to be let's let's reframe that, should we be ingesting that leucine content within a 20 minute timeframe of doing strength training?

Unknown: 14:09

The first answer I would say would be why not? Post training? Why not when there is the most amount of blood flow as it relates to the studies in ageing? What we found is that followed with resistance training, a bolus of protein can actually bring the physiological functions up to a youthful level. When we think about ageing, we often think about anabolic resistance. What anabolic resistance really is, is this inefficiency of protein usage and quite possibly sensing. If an individual does resistance training, and then follows that up with protein so you combine resistance training and amino acids, we see a more youthful response essentially 65 year old muscle can look like 25 year old muscle as it relates to the response patterning.

Louisa Nicola: 15:05

I would love for you to really tell the audience like what would be an? What would it look like, okay? If somebody says to you, I want to put on fire, let's five pounds of muscle mass. If somebody said this to you and they are, say I take a 35 year old female, what's the advice you would give her? Because I think there's a lot of misleading advice. We, and you talk a lot about evidence based medicine as well, which I love. You bring all of your insights and your opinions in there from peer reviewed, you know, you go out there you do the research, you really do try. And you mentioned, you've mentioned minimising bias. But you also I believe I heard you say once in a podcast that you are very biassed towards your opinions. And you know, there's a huge thing in clinical epidemiology when we talk about that. But that's another conversation. Why are we to get like I just hate, like I said, it goes back to my previous comment where I say, I hear females say, I don't want to come I've got a lot of friends that I want. I want them to come into the gym with me because like strength training is not my forte, but and I get I get bored doing it. But I know I have to do it. So I'm trying to get my friends to do it with me. And they're like, No, I don't want to pick up weights. I'm scared that I'm like after one session, they're scared they're going to put on muscle mass. So what does it look realistically for 35 year old female wants to gain five pounds of muscle.

Unknown: 16:29

Number one, she's going to have to really target her training. And typically we do what we've become habituated in, and that is often cardio, excess cardio under eating that that becomes very difficult to put on any kind of skeletal muscle or build a different kind of physique. Number one, you have to get a good training programme down which includes resistance exercise, and not necessarily lightweights. It really should be, you know, and there's data both ways. You know, Stu Phillips at McMaster University, some of his data suggests that you can do lighter weights as long as you're going to fatigue. And of course, we can say that value matters. I think the other component of that is also loading the body appropriately. And that takes someone who strategically designs a programme for you. Yeah. And another thing to realise is that the more on trained you are, the more likely you're going to be able to put on skeletal muscle, especially when you combine that with proper nutrition. It does require a bit of total increase in calories to lay down skeletal muscle.

Louisa Nicola: 17:37

Yeah, you're not going to build muscle without proper nutrition.

Unknown: 17:40

No, and you actually need more more of a caloric load, it would be very difficult to gain skeletal muscle in a caloric deficit. So making sure you're bringing it back to your point making sure that individuals have a very well designed resistance programme, in addition to high quality protein, and understanding that there are ways to optimise protein intake, and of course, rest and recovery are big. I want to mention what you said earlier, I think that it's very important that we all do have our bias. But it's of intellectual integrity to say when these are our opinions versus These are facts. And I really believe strongly about that.

Louisa Nicola: 18:24

So when you talk about high quality protein, should we be supplementing with leucine? If we're like hell bent on putting on muscle?

Unknown: 18:34

I would the answer to that would be no. You do not want to supplement with one amino acid because of the way in which this cycle goes through the cell. You it would be advisable to supplement with all of the branched chain amino acids, leucine, isoleucine and Beilein. If you were to supplement with leucine alone, it pushes the, the way in which leucine is utilised. It's it's an IT WOULD BE unbalanced. So you would ultimately deplete the other branched chain amino acids.

Louisa Nicola: 19:09

I want to I have a question about IGF one. And this question in this area really upsets me because I believe it is extremely confused. So there is a common belief that high IGF one is bad for longevity. And I think that's based on a false premise.

Unknown: 19:28

However,

Louisa Nicola: 19:29

let's just say that we agree with what mainstream medicine and media says when it tells us that high IGF one is bad for longevity, what would be the best protocol to build lean muscle mass without sacrificing longevity?

Unknown: 19:45

I think the first thing that we have to realise is that muscle mass is a promoter of longevity. Okay, that's a federal thing. And then the second thing is, if IGF one was bad, right then All young men and young women in their 20s when they're IGF one is the highest, somehow would be in the worst health. But that's actually not what we see. Then concept that higher IGF one and you know, really that number hasn't even been defined. I mean, I've done bloodwork for on patients for 15 years, what what do we determine? Hi, I rarely see it overtly out of range. And the only times often that I see it out of range are in obesity, or if someone is just coming off training. Yeah. So I think that that is very misleading, that concept that IGF one would be an issue is is, doesn't quite make any sense. Because if you take a look at the lifecycle of IGF one is naturally highest when we're younger. Yeah, it's and there's even a study on dementia and IGF one. And it shows that the risk of dementia goes down lower and lower, as IGF levels get higher and higher. So, but there's this, you know, there's obviously this grey area where there's science, and then there's social media, where I see a lot of people talking about and arguing the fact that high IGF one is is bad, especially when it comes to longevity and health. So I'm so happy that you're absolutely and then also by what mechanism of action. So this is actually what I think underpins This is this misconception that protein causes cancer. So there are nutrition narratives that really want to demonise animal based products. Oh, yeah. And, you know, it's interesting, because the first decade of my career, when I never even thought twice about this, there was no deep conversation about an anti animal narrative. And it's something that I would say is relatively new to the mainstream, which is so interesting, as a clinician, from my perspective, is that all of a sudden, really, within the last eight years or so, there's a tremendous push of this anti animal narrative, this concept that IGF one would be bad. You know, this is the, you know, really more pro vegan groups that talk about this, but not necessarily in medicine. It's not, you know, because it doesn't make sense. And then this concept, I think, at the root of that is that people talk about protein and its effect on cancer. But the reality is, it's much more dangerous to be obese, it's much more dangerous to be constantly feeding and overfeeding carbohydrates.

Louisa Nicola: 22:54

Yeah, there's this there is a very strong group out there of activists who are anti animal products. And this is not just for the environmental issues and the love of animals, because I understand that aspect aspect. But then there's a there's a very strong group of, there's a lot of MDS, especially in the area of neurology, I've actually got two friends who are focused on Alzheimer's disease and Alzheimer's disease prevention, and they're vegans, and they talk about how beneficial it is to adopt a vegan lifestyle for brain health. And then I talk to other people. I've also had Paul Saladino on the podcasting. And I know you've been on here and he's on the other extreme, you know, only meat and in you know, I'm so I get, I can only imagine how everybody else feels in the world who's not really heavy in science and medicine. I'm already I'm already struggling. It's just so it's either misunderstood or there's just is just too much going on to understand what path to take, because then you can talk about brain health, but you just introduced cancer and longevity. And I know the best people when it comes to longevity, the best physicians in the world who are advocating for yourself being one of them are pro animal products.

Unknown: 24:18

And so you know, it's interesting, you talk about brain health. So part of my training at washu was geriatrics. That was my clinical responsibilities. So that means I would be considered an expert in individuals over 65 and up the ageing individual and I will tell you, part of my clinical research was also doing brain imaging fMRI brain imaging of obese individuals in their mid life. And then I ran a blade, a brain clinic, a memory and ageing clinic for two years as part of my fellowship responsibilities. What I can tell you is that midlife obesity has a huge impact on later life dementia, number one at core of Alzheimer's disease dimension ageing, we have to think about body composition. And this is where the concept of being under muscles under muscled really comes in. It's not about being over fat, it is about being under muscled, and it is about metabolic dysfunction. So that's one aspect of brain ageing. And, you know, it's devastating to see. And that's actually where the concept of muscle centric medicine was born. It was because it was so personally devastating to see these people over and over and over again, whether they were obese midlife or they were, you know, I worked in a nursing home. And you know, you see, at the end of the day, when everyone is arguing about longevity, I can tell you the difference between the last five years of your life how you want to live if you want to live to 105 crippled in a bed, or if you want to live to 100 with healthy skeletal muscle, and mobility. And on your own, there are two very, two very different ways to live.

Louisa Nicola: 25:59

So before you move on to the second point, I just want to ask two questions. First, is you talk about midlife obesity, when you say midlife? Are we talking? 50?

Unknown: 26:09

It could even be earlier. I mean, so I mean that the studies with the with the patients that I saw, I mean, they were younger than 50.

Louisa Nicola: 26:17

and define obesity, is that based on the amount of body fat like is that a body fat percentage,

Unknown: 26:25

it is a body fat percentage, and there are certain standards, but it is also about excess weight. So you know, we talked about a BMI of greater than 30 as it relates to obesity. But of course, that doesn't take into account skeletal muscle. But that, you know, that's when you look at the criteria inclusion exclusion criteria for studies, that is what that would be defined us.

Louisa Nicola: 26:49

Okay, and then the second question is my parents, my dad will be 70 next year, my mom 67. And the basis of all of our arguments revolve around exercise. Yeah, I'm talking like we have a severe like, it's, it's come to the point where it's like becoming a very big issue, because they don't understand obviously, where I'm coming from. But when I tell them that, you know, they need to pick up weights. So it gets harder, like if my parents started in their 40s, for example, it would be a lot easier for them now to, you know, be more mobile and to gain more of a perspective on exercise. But can't is there? Is there ever a time where it's just too late to start strength training like that they can start right at their age? Absolutely. It's

Unknown: 27:37

never too late. It's never too late for improvement. And you know, what else is really interesting about what you said is it's habitual. You're talking about the hard ingrained beliefs of your, you know, 70 year old father or 65 year old mother, what's so interesting is this is the population that the social media misses, right, and how everybody is arguing on either the younger extreme, they're doing the cleanses, or they're 20. And they, you know, are going vegan, or they're in their 40s, and 50s. And everyone should be just eating meat and being paleo and strength training. And it's so interesting that the conversation, it's almost as if individuals are fighting amongst themselves, but who we really need to help are the ageing population that are completely ignored from the conversation. And it becomes interesting, because if we can shift to a more balanced conversation, and reach the people that really need it, and listen, arguably, everybody needs it. But people like your parents, why should they spend another five years or you spend another five years trying to convince them of something that we know is essentially good for them? Part of it is because they are underrepresented individuals, you know, they're not educated in the way or they don't have access, or they're just not habitually interested in social media. And while all of us are arguing about it, we're actually missing the point of by trying to negotiate and navigate with our parents. We can ultimately change the way that they age. Yeah.

Louisa Nicola: 29:21

Yeah, maybe maybe you should jump on a call with them to save me from arguing.

Unknown: 29:27

Once never, it's never too late to start. But the earlier you start, the better truly,

Louisa Nicola: 29:31

when it comes to chronic inflammation. I think that that is the first and foremost start of many chronic and debilitating diseases. We look at pathological findings of Alzheimer's disease. We know that obviously, it's a phosphorylation of tau protein which can be somewhat correlated to starting with chronic inflammation. That's just one aspect but chronic inflammation also plays a role in obesity and And, and muscle mass and obviously atrophy. So do you think that there is reason to believe that everyday we should be focusing on minimising inflammation?

Unknown: 30:15

I think that that is a long term conversation. Yes, absolutely. But I think as it relates to inflammation, for example, training would be considered an inflammatory state, but there has to be a counterbalance, walking around with excess obesity creates an oil, it can create low grade inflammation, and that really over a period of time becomes very challenging because the more obese you are, at times this become there become it becomes more difficult to lay down skeletal muscle and stimulate skeletal muscle, it really is, it's almost as if you're swimming upstream. It is very important to mitigate and control the aspects of wellness that you can. And as a relates to reducing inflammation. This really does come from reducing body fat and correcting body composition. Okay.

Louisa Nicola: 31:14

Yeah, I've I've been obsessed with that, you know, with the whole notion of cold shock proteins, for example, in terms of not just neurogenesis and brain health, but also minimising inflammation.

Unknown: 31:26

Yes.

Louisa Nicola: 31:28

All right. You're a big fan of red meat. Korea. loud and proud. So am I look, I'm Greek, so I don't have a choice. But you've said previously that the number one thing that people should do is eat more red meat. Now, I'm sure you've had people attacking you for that comment. I don't know if you have but I'm sure you've somewhere in your career have had somebody an activist come and attack you for that.

Unknown: 31:55

First,

Louisa Nicola: 31:56

why red meat over? Fish, for example.

Unknown: 32:00

It is a nutrient dense matrix. It has creatine, it has bioavailable iron, selenium, B vitamins. It's just so nutrient dense, and we've been eating it for 2 million years.

Louisa Nicola: 32:13

Should we be focusing on the way the meat is? Like should we be getting belcampo made? Or should we be looking at the type of meat in terms of Should we get organic or grass fed? Or is it just meat is meat?

Unknown: 32:26

I think that there are a couple conversations surrounding that. Number one, I don't think it should be a barrier of entry. Cost of organic meat can be very expensive for people, I would much rather have them have whatever they can afford, versus eating a Twinkie? Well, yeah, we eat red meat, whether it's organic or not, should not be a barrier to entry cost. Now, I do think that there's aspects that are important, like the regenerative aspects of agriculture, and if you can afford it, then I think that pasture raised and those that are raised consciously, very important. The other aspect is if we were to just look at the nutrient differences, there are not tremendous amount of nutrient differences between organic and conventional. And I think that is important to point out again, this is where opinion comes in versus science and people really have this strong opinion that they should only be eating organic. And while that is opinion and listen, we at home eat organic. I can't say that there is a vast difference in the nutrient profile between organic and conventionally raised because the the majority of cattle are raised in pasture. The majority of cattle are not raised in in feedlots.

Louisa Nicola: 33:53

When you talk about meat, are you talking Do you have nose to tail you're doing organ meat as well? We do. Yeah, also you're doing liver. liver. Yep. Well, brains. Oh, gosh.

Unknown: 34:06

No. I mean, I'm I'm eight months pregnant. That is definitely not how

Louisa Nicola: 34:10

Oh, wow. Wow. Yeah, that's that's amazing. All right, I want to switch the gears now and talk about brain health and because before moving into the athletic space, which is where I am now, I was involved in Alzheimer's disease and lifestyle interventions. And when I looked at there was so many different articles and studies that I read on the relationship between brain health and the muscle mass of your quadriceps it was staggering. So, what happens in terms of like specific, you mentioned it earlier cognitive function and cognitive decline when it comes to strength training, but is there a direct correlation between muscle mass and memory function that you saw with your fMRI studies?

Unknown: 34:55

I did. So the the wider the waistline, the the lower the overall environment. And that is been reproduced in multiple other studies, you can easily do a literature review search on that. Yes, body composition adiposity, wide waistline, excess visceral fat has look, many individuals will have lower brain volume they have I'll tell I'll just share with you. What I have found in the research that we were doing at washu is that there was an aspect of executive functioning, which is numbers and also impulse control with obesity. And that's of course, not to say that everybody who struggles with obesity would have these parameters. But this is what I did see, in my time, I watched you doing brain studies when we were on the metabolic Ward we did cognitive testing a full battery of cognitive tests and, and that's what we found.

Louisa Nicola: 35:58

Do you have a favourite supplement when it comes to protein?

Unknown: 36:03

Well, I work with a company called first form and they are amazing as it really does that Andy, Andy for Sella yet. Yeah, but Andy at Indian sales company is amazing. And what I love about their products is you can if you are vegan or vegetarian, you can have a well balanced amino acid profile of a vegan shake. Or you can do a whey protein which, you know, I am much more inclined to recommend whey protein

Louisa Nicola: 36:34

I'm having. I'm having a bit of whey protein and I'm also doing the vegan protein, just start mixing. Well, look, what's the your whole thesis is centred around muscle as medicine and longevity view? What are your lasting? If you could give advice to anybody after the end of this podcast to go and adopt a more muscle centric lifestyle? What would that be?

Unknown: 37:00

The first strategy that I would say is making sure that you're getting a minimum of 30 grammes per meal. And if you want to say that three times a day, that would be a great starting point. And that's a wonderful place to start is you know, to control body composition, you do have to account for carbohydrates. And you do have to account for total caloric load 30 grammes per meal three times a day is a great starting point, then you can evolve that to more optimal numbers where say, for example, you don't want to eat multiple times a day. And you want to build that muscle mass, the way to do that would actually be to increase the protein per meal to roughly 45 to 50 grammes. Wow, could do that if you did that two meals a day. And then perhaps if you had a smaller meal of protein, midday, that would absolutely suffice. But it's, it is nuanced in the way that you change the dosing. So you go from a 30 gramme dose, which is minimal stimulation, which would be good for maintenance and weight loss and body composition, to move towards more optimization and actually, with the goal of putting down skeletal muscle and that would be increasing the protein pulsing of the diet, which would be 45 to 50 grammes.

Louisa Nicola: 38:25

Okay, well, look, everything that you provided us in here is absolutely wonderful. And I know that people are going to want to hear more about you. Where can they find you?

Unknown: 38:37

I am very active on Instagram, Dr. Gabrielle Lyon, Li o. n. They can find me on youtube with the same name. I do a tonne of education with my mentor. We put up a video amazing. Yeah, and that's all free. We do a video a week. I have a newsletter that has very curated information. I won't spam you guys. It's really educational purposes only. On my website at Dr. Gabrielle Lyon, I have a free protocol. And they can sign up for a few of the upcoming courses that I'll be putting on which are protein pulsing and protein cycling. So by me, yeah, I'm going to link everything at the end of this episode. But Dr. Gabrielle Lyon, thank

Louisa Nicola: 39:21

you so much for being part of the neuro experience podcast. Yeah, thank

Unknown: 39:25

you so much for having me.